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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I got a soa kit installed a few weeks ago (breeze 5.5) and today I put my samy in 4H for the first time since and it's making grinding noises when i let go of the gas for shifting (very bumpy in 2nd gear). I also notice a bumbpy ride lately in 2H and I thought it might have been a wheel out of balance. The noise seems to be coming from the front driver side. ANY IDEA OF WHAT COULD BE WRONG? I'm now thinking front diff. but I have no idea what could be wrong with it. Thanks a lot for your help...


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91 samurai, still stock
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Sorry, I meant The grindind is coming from the front passenger side.

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91 samurai, still stock
 

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If it olny dose this in 4 wheel drive it is because you have changed the drive line angles on your t-case. hope that this helps you out a bit.

Tim

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92 zuk 32x11.50 BFG
5:13s rocklights....
 

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It's driveline angles... I had the same problem with a shorter lift.

Make sure everything's greased up properly and you have good oil in your diffs.

basically, when you weld the spoa on the back, they tilt the perches (3 degrees I think) to compensate for the new angles. They DO NOT do this on the front as it would really screw with your castor.

Some 'zuki dealers sell castor shims (dunno where you could pick 'em up locally) you could try putting those in and then either re-qelding the fron perches or byin degree shims from spidertrax ( www.spidertrax.com ).

I've never done this, there may be some issue when you rotate the axle forward as to whether all your steering linkages are still the proper length to connect to one other ( maybe others can comment on this?)

David

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I have a SPOA with about 4 inch of lift, Last week I put new shackles on and brought it to about 5 inchs. Today in the snow I had to use 4 wheel and noticed just about the exact same problem. My Grinding was when I had the gas pushed just enough to keep from Coasting. Not Accelerating and not Gas off but that sweet spot right in the middle.

I didn't have this problem before I put the shackles on so I think it has something to do with the drivreshaft angles as well. I dotn' have spacers in the shaft yet. Would that Help ya think??

My grinding sounds like it is on the drivers side front though. As well I dont' get that heavy Vibration you do either. Just some grinding sounds and mi9nor Vibration in the sweet spot.

And since I am on the topic I have noticed recently that when highway driving and up around 90 or over In that same sweet spot I get kinda the same grinding niose rounghness thing. But this time its in 2H and in the rear. ANY THOUGHTS?

Thx

-Flyboy
 

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Flyboy
Adding D.S. spacers might stop some of the noise ...
other thing that it might be is that you could have a shot t-case output shaft bearing ......
(not to sure though


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92 zuk 32x11.50 BFG
5:13s rocklights....
 

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um.... have any of you guys crawled under your rigs and turned the front driveshaft by hand and looked at the u-joints while doing so? (OBVIOUSLY THIS IS WITH ENGINE OFF AND E-BRAKE ON, DUH.
)
IMHO all of this *sounds* like front drive shaft u-joint binding.
-going spoa 4" or more you pretty much have to have: driveshaft spacers OR extended slip yokes OR lengthened driveshafts.
sometimes even a combination of several items.
if you don't, it's probably just a matter of time before you pop a driveshaft out of it's slip yoke or twist the splines because of lack of overlap area.
my spoa was just 5". but because of an additional 2" shackle reversal-i couldnt use the front driveshaft .75" spacer that came with the lift, but had to install a 1" extended slip yoke instead. AND "clearance" the crotch and ears of the u-joints themselves a little, just to prevent the 'joints from binding.
while this did work, i have still have some vibration and occasional shudders in 4wd, and mild vibration in 2wd when the the hubs are locked.
the rear has been just peachy keen so far, because of the tilted up rear diff, and (2) .50" spacers.
i've heard claims of the stock u-joint max operating angles being around 21* but can't totally confirm this. all i know is mine are a lot less than that, and i could not even engage 4wd the first day because of front 'joint binding.
again this is just what i've discovered with MY vehicle, there are lots of weird little quirks that may invalidate what i have said, so take it for what it's worth. hope it might help a little? cheers!
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I have the driveshaft spacers that Breeze provided with the 5,5" lift kit so it know looks like u-joint althought there is minimal play in them. If it's a binding problem, how do I solve it??? Breeze said that they never heard of this problem with their product so ???????

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91 samurai, still stock
 

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I will have to take a loosky at my U joints.

I will let ya know what I see. If they are in fact binding how can I fix that. Is it possible to take a dremmile and grind down the joints where there binding or is that a bad Idea?

-Flyboy

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Originally posted by samyskid:
I have the driveshaft spacers that Breeze provided with the 5,5" lift kit so it know looks like u-joint althought there is minimal play in them. If it's a binding problem, how do I solve it??? Breeze said that they never heard of this problem with their product so ???????

well as i mentioned above, every vehicle has it's own idiosyncracies. the problem isn't with the Breeze hardware, but what it's attached to, or HOW it's installed. (ie: did you put the front spacer on the slip yoke side(transfercase) of the driveshaft or down at the front diff. end?)i tried both ways, and on MY vehicle,('91) it was *slighty* better with the spacer at the diff end, but still too much angle for the u-joint at the transfercase end to turn without binding.
why, i dunno. just what i found while experimenting.
it only worked for me when i took out the spacer and installed the 1" slip yoke extension- that's how i solved MY problem. you can tell instantly if it's having this problem by looking at the u-joints while turning the 'shaft by hand.realize too, that this is just an at rest or "static" test, any kind of articulation/driving especially off road will allow the 'joints to "flex" far past this amount.
this is why i CAREFULLY removed just a LITTLE material while the 'joints were off the vehicle so i could bend them to max angles and see exactly where they would rub.
think of it more as "porting/polishing an engine's intake" rather than: "hyuk,hyuk, pass the torch/sawzall Billybob"
did you use a torque wrench and properly tighten the fasteners/u-bolts to spec.etc.?
did you drain the diff oil and forget to refill it?



ps-my stock original u-joint bearings were utterly KNACKERED, so popping a set of fresh ones in made HUGE differences as well.

[This message has been edited by lane smith (edited January 24, 2002).]
 

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Well I took a brief look at my U-joints and there appears to be no rubbing, Hmmmm

I didnt' pull it or push it of check for play in it though, (there was snow on the ground and I wasn't in the mood to crawl around down there) if there is play though, any ideas as to what play would be from what parts?

-Flyboy

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sheesh, ya gotta crawl under there SOMETIME snow or no snow.....
it was the LACK of play in my u-joints rather than too much BTW....one was seized nearly solid.
when i took (one of them) apart, the needle bearings were literally POWDER. nary a speck of grease to be found.
since they were of the "sealed" type, it was my fault for not replacing them earlier, as part of routine maintenence.lazy me.
 

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OK GUYS, a few things here. First off the front diff has a good angle in stock form. WHATEVER U DO DONT USE SHIMS UP FRONT. Last summer i CRANKED my buddies sami and had to cut out the cross member cuz the front shaft rubbed on it. Actually i only cut out about 6 inches and welded in a half loop to clear. Another thing is the transfercase angle favours the rear diff. You could lower the t-case and tilt the front down a BIT but remember, this comes at the expense of increasing your half shaft angle !!! The front ujoint at the t-case often binds with nice lift and this is often the cause of vibration. Do u have locking hubs??? If not keep in mind that the front end is engaged ecxept for at the tcase. In other words, your front axles turn even in 2wd and this causes vibration even in a stock ride height. Also front wheel bearings dont last that long when u have big tires and are constantly in and out of mud and water. Remember, with an 80" wheelbase a small lift really increase your angle. And as someone else said, put the spacer at the diff, not the t-case. Spacers at the t-case increase your angle , think about this for a bit, it'll make sense to you sooner or later. And dont forget, when u lift a truck and dont lengthen yous shafts or use spacers, the inner splines in the yoke tends to wear out quikly and ends up pretty sloppy witch just adds to vibes and so on. If your rear axle bearings are shot this while give u a rough ride. I take my axles out and repack my bearings with SYNTHETIC grease everychance i get. Pull out the axle and use a pick to take out the bearing seal, if its steel, seperate it slightly and use a needle on your grease gun to jam some grease in there, hope this helps. If i left anything out, let me know.
 

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Originally posted by lane smith:
well as i mentioned above, every vehicle has it's own idiosyncracies. the problem isn't with the Breeze hardware, but what it's attached to, or HOW it's installed. (ie: did you put the front spacer on the slip yoke side(transfercase) of the driveshaft or down at the front diff. end?)i tried both ways, and on MY vehicle,('91) it was *slighty* better with the spacer at the diff end, but still too much angle for the u-joint at the transfercase end to turn without binding.
why, i dunno. just what i found while experimenting.
it only worked for me when i took out the spacer and installed the 1" slip yoke extension- that's how i solved MY problem. you can tell instantly if it's having this problem by looking at the u-joints while turning the 'shaft by hand.realize too, that this is just an at rest or "static" test, any kind of articulation/driving especially off road will allow the 'joints to "flex" far past this amount.
this is why i CAREFULLY removed just a LITTLE material while the 'joints were off the vehicle so i could bend them to max angles and see exactly where they would rub.
think of it more as "porting/polishing an engine's intake" rather than: "hyuk,hyuk, pass the torch/sawzall Billybob"
did you use a torque wrench and properly tighten the fasteners/u-bolts to spec.etc.?
did you drain the diff oil and forget to refill it?



ps-my stock original u-joint bearings were utterly KNACKERED, so popping a set of fresh ones in made HUGE differences as well.

[This message has been edited by lane smith (edited January 24, 2002).]
Where do you get the 1 inch slip yoke extension.


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Have had the same problem with a grinding vibration noise in 4 hi as has been mentioned here. Here's what I've noticed: with the spoa the rear semms to fine. The front is the problem. get under your rig and grab the front driveshaft, try to flex it up and down at the the spline/shaft joint. If there is play then that was caused by binding at the u joint on the transfer case side. ( i've got a few of those yokes and noticed they all have been gouged right in the U-part from binding) If there is play then the the splines inside the yoke are shot normally the driveshaft splines will be ok as they are hardened steel and the yoke is mild steel. You need a new or better replacement yoke and put in new u-joints they make a greasable one.(Anyone know the part # ?) One question I have is: could this binding over long term caused the transfer case output shaft bearing to be damaged and how do you check that? Oh yeah to prevent future binding try the tips the other guys mentioned: bring the front of transfer case down a bit. One cheap way to do this is saw the passenger side front bushing in half. Also use the spacer at the diff.

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Take off the driveshaft and see if the flange moves up and down, cant check with the shaft inplace, same applies for your pinions but a pinion leak usually means the seals gone wich means the front pinion bearing is on its way out

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Actually GMB part # APS1 is a very high quality u-joint it is greasable and this to me anyways, seems to make more sense than a sealed unit.
 

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Originally posted by MuddMachine:
Take off the driveshaft and see if the flange moves up and down, cant check with the shaft inplace, same applies for your pinions but a pinion leak usually means the seals gone wich means the front pinion bearing is on its way out

What I meant was grab the driveshaft where the shaft splines mate with the slip yoke if this joint has play the splines inside the slip yoke have worn down and this causes many of the above said problems.
 
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