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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
first off don't say it is a bad idea just cause you would be afraid to fabricate or don't wheel in terrain requiring extreme clearance
not that it isn't fun wherever you go and what you go in. I know all the specs 69.5" wide in front 69" in rear drum to drum 7.56.1 gears cable activated lockers 5.5 inches more clearance than a D60 you can put the front steer on rear axles no prob (bolt on) tourqe tube no prob, I'm a Appentice Machinist I know all the camber caster specs. I know about the axle shafts and how they are designed to twist a certain amount just lookin for opinions Oh thier strength is said to be stronger than a D70
 

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Other than the price (the axles themselves, and replacement parts) and fabricating needed to be done...I don't know of any downsides over a D70 or 60.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
if you get them at a wrecking yard they should cosy about 500-1000 depending on condition and a machine shop should be able to machine a pinion flange/seal for about 200 per axle so your lookin at about 2400 for both plus fabricating suspension and steering still cheaper than buying custom axles
 

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Greg W said:
Weight, and the gear reduction ratio in those things would be 2 downsides.
If you're looking for axles in that strength range, the weight isn't out of line. Switching to discs like Rob did (his company, EXAXT makes disc conversion kits) would shave off some of the weight, too.

The portal hubs would require very strong control arms to keep the axle wrap under check.

Gear reduction would also be an issue if this were going to be driven on the hwy, especially since the portal gears aren't rated for high rpms. I think Rob is going a bit beyond the max recommended rpms when he is doing 100km/h.

The other issue, though, is that you can't simply tilt the pinion to whatever angle you needed because doing so would mean the portal hubs would no longer sit directly beneath the axle tubes. Cutting and turning the tubes would, IMO, be a good idea.

...lars



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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
there is no way i'm going to BUY! any conversions for these axles
that would drive the price up too much exact wants over 2grand for just one axle disc conversion, like i said I'm a machinist i'll make it myself! the wieght is about the same as D60 600lbs bit more for the front i'm going with triangulated four link 1.5" diameter control arms and 1" hiems or rod ends so axle wrap will not be a problem pinion angle is also not a problem as it is a high pinion design plus it sits 5.5 inches higher nad I have np205 highway crusin will be a challenge as i am going to make my own np203 reverse doubler like robs hulk, with 44's it lowers the gear ratio effectivly raising top speed lowering engine speed there are some people out there that run 7.17:1 in D60 with no overdrive on the street
 

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Broncoo said:
with 44's it lowers the gear ratio effectivly raising top speed lowering engine speed there are some people out there that run 7.17:1 in D60 with no overdrive on the street
That's true, are you planning on running 44's? If so, I want to see it when it's done!
 

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Broncoo said:
there is no way i'm going to BUY! any conversions for these axles
that would drive the price up too much exact wants over 2grand for just one axle disc conversion, like i said I'm a machinist i'll make it myself! the wieght is about the same as D60 600lbs bit more for the front i'm going with triangulated four link 1.5" diameter control arms and 1" hiems or rod ends so axle wrap will not be a problem pinion angle is also not a problem as it is a high pinion design plus it sits 5.5 inches higher nad I have np205 highway crusin will be a challenge as i am going to make my own np203 reverse doubler like robs hulk, with 44's it lowers the gear ratio effectivly raising top speed lowering engine speed there are some people out there that run 7.17:1 in D60 with no overdrive on the street
Well, it seems like you're intent in following in Rob's footsteps. I can't really add anything more to this beyond what I've already mentioned (which is basically stuff I learned from talking to Rob and looking at his rig). And since you've already determined that those issues aren't going to be a problem with your vehicle, good luck to you.

Show us pics when you're done.


...lars



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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
yeah WHEN! it's done i and throughout the buildup i will open a place to view pics right now i am just taking the bronco apart and getting the stuff i need to build it i plan on running 38-42's 106" wb and a exocage fillited onto the body
 

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I am currently(still) in the process of putting a set under my truck. as far as I can tell the only possible down side to them is the ultra low 7.56 gearing, but If you are going to use the truck as a daily driver it won't be a problem. I am also putting a 5" susp lift with my axles and so far it doesn't look like the pinion angle is going to be a problem. The way the axles are designed, the pinion is tilted up a bit. If you want a little example of the strength. Rob had a tug-o-war with another Chev with D60's under it at Top Truck Challenge and the other chev broke an axle. The Hulk was fine. At 530 lb for the front and 485lb for the rear axle, they aren't really heavy compared to other axles of comparible strenth.
 

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Jarett said:
I am also putting a 5" susp lift with my axles and so far it doesn't look like the pinion angle is going to be a problem.
AFAIK, Rob's getting some driveshaft vibration at hwy speeds and he's running a 3" lift. You've got a longer wheelbase...but you'll also be running more lift. Of course, since you're not putting in an overdrive, you probably won't be going fast enough to get the vibration. :D

...lars



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Last week I helped heave an NP203/205-700R4 combo into my buddy's cruiser. Its also sitting on a pair of mog axles, and the axles don't have a centered diff. This is going to cause problems, so is the pinion flange which will have to be made.
It looks cool, but after seeing it in person I'd rather have an axle I can get parts for, where ever I am.
I can see getting mog parts a problem, it would be vacation over if it broke.
Just my opinion.
 

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I already mentioned this, but I'll throw it out again.

Running tires that big (and presumably the wheeling you could do with them) puts a lot of stress on the frame and on the suspension mounts, so make sure they are up to the load.
 

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Broncoo:
Good luck with your own disk brake and pinion conversions. It can be done, but I think that you'll find that the brake conversions are a lot more work than your are expecting right now. Still, when you can do it yourself, and not counting your time as $ on your own projects, you can always save $.

Reverse NP203: what transmission are you planning on using? If you run an OD transmission, you may not need it. Depends on your engine selection too.

I gotta add my name to the list of people wanting to see pics of this project coming together too!

Jarett:
The Chevy that broke the axle shaft actually broke a rear D70 35 spline axle shaft. :D I did suffer some damage there too: killed the rear leaf springs (they're really settled), and wrapped up my rear torque arms like a pretzel. But nothing broke in the drivetrain, which I'm happy about.

Chris:
Your right, the axles and wheels and tires do add up to a lot of weight. So far, my frame isn't showing any signs of cracking, etc., but I am keeping a keen eye on it. We also added in some extra X-members to reduce the frame twist, to try to prolong its life.

DP:
Yeah, Mog 406 axle parts are a bit more rare than 404's. That's because so many are still in service. But I saw a good friend of mine take his U900 (same as a 406) and literally hop it under full load and throttle 4 inches off the ground for minutes. And nothing broke. So I wouldn't worry too much about trail breakage. 404's aren't as strong, and some people have broken them, but parts are easier to come by and are a fair bit cheaper. Besides, D60's are getting rather hard to find in junkyards now too.

Lars:
Yeah, I do have vibrations at 80+kph, but I think it's U-joint angles and phase problems. I know the pinion angle was out a bit before, so when I put in the new torque arms, it should work better, since the suspension will have settled in already.

--Rob
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
i plan on boxing the entire frame and adding 5/16 plate to the high load areas and extra crossmembers + exocage will help firm up frame as well I know the rear is a offset diff whats the big deal u-joints don't know which way is up or down np435 is tranny of my choice lift is going to be as little as possible hackitty fenders
 

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well my buddy is considering putting in a 404 i beleive in his jeep sometime later its not done (the project going to be a while)

and i knwo its expensive but im sure it would be worth it and i think hes going to machine the stuff himself.. lots of custom work.. maybe some of the stuff would be purchased via some places.. depending on the prices..
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
i'm just accumulating parts and tearing the bronco apart right now but i hope to have it done in a 18 months I hpoe to be seriously starting in 10 months (waiting for shop to be built house goes up first)
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
ryeguy said:
Broncoo:
Good luck with your own disk brake and pinion conversions. It can be done, but I think that you'll find that the brake conversions are a lot more work than your are expecting right now.
i'll find out when i take the axle apart
can you get locking hubs for them (404)

Reverse NP203: what transmission are you planning on using? Depends on your engine selection too.

using np435 and 5.0 H.O

Jarett:
and wrapped up my rear torque arms like a pretzel.

what dia and wall thickness?


Lars:
Yeah, I do have vibrations at 80+kph, but I think it's U-joint angles and phase problems. I know the pinion angle was out a bit before, so when I put in the new torque arms, it should work better, since the suspension will have settled in already.
did you have to rotate the pinion at all ?
--Rob
 

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Locking hubs for 404 Mog axles: No
My rear torque arms: sched. 40 1.25" dia. black pipe, replacments are sched. 80
Rear pinion: No rotations, narrowing, etc.

--Rob
 
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