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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
First off i did the search, mostly this board all focused on waggys for the rear. So then i searched pirate, and did many hours of reading, and this is what i now know.

waggys are from mid 70's to mid 80's grand wagoneers, they had 7 leaf spring packs, are super soft and flexy, you need to modify the bushings to make them fit, you want the short end forward 22" vs 24" it moves your axle forward at ride height but not at full compression, you need longer shackels.


things im asking on advice for:

1. How much longer shackles?

2. What shims do i need too keep pinion angle close to normal?

3. One side of toyota axles is lower then the other side, how much? and what are some good ways to overcome this?

4. some say that it requires a long slip front drive shaft? yes/no?


finally its an '81 longbox with 3" bodylift, other than that stock, and im looking for about 3" of lift with 4" being the max.

thanks in advance for the advice i recive.
 

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dvst8rcbr said:
First off i did the search, mostly this board all focused on waggys for the rear. So then i searched pirate, and did many hours of reading, and this is what i now know.

waggys are from mid 70's to mid 80's grand wagoneers, they had 7 leaf spring packs, are super soft and flexy, you need to modify the bushings to make them fit, you want the short end forward 22" vs 24" it moves your axle forward at ride height but not at full compression, you need longer shackels.


things im asking on advice for:

1. How much longer shackles?

2. What shims do i need too keep pinion angle close to normal?

3. One side of toyota axles is lower then the other side, how much? and what are some good ways to overcome this?

4. some say that it requires a long slip front drive shaft? yes/no?


finally its an '81 longbox with 3" bodylift, other than that stock, and im looking for about 3" of lift with 4" being the max.

thanks in advance for the advice i recive.
well i made my shackles about two inches longer than stock, didnt use any shims(havent needed them yet) dont notice any lean, and definatly need longer front shaft. i have approx 3 to 4 in of lift with stock waggys, hope all this helps.Russ
:*******
 

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I'm very interested in this thread also so I would like to ask a few questions too if I might.
1. Did you remove a leaf from the spring pack? I've seen some posts stating that one should remove a leaf making them a 6 leaf pack.
2. The 3" to 4" of lift you mentioned does that include the shackle or is that from the springs alone?
3. Also what did you do with the hangers... the waggy is 2.5" wide and I understand that with the bushing it's 3" and a very tight fit for a stock hanger.
4. And the last question :D, if I go with a drop hanger will this point the pinion up to the t-case, down or not move it at all. From what I see in my mind it will move it up... or am I on crack.
Thanks... and the truck looks great btw! :*******
 

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Spudzz said:
I'm very interested in this thread also so I would like to ask a few questions too if I might.
1. Did you remove a leaf from the spring pack? I've seen some posts stating that one should remove a leaf making them a 6 leaf pack.
2. The 3" to 4" of lift you mentioned does that include the shackle or is that from the springs alone?
3. Also what did you do with the hangers... the waggy is 2.5" wide and I understand that with the bushing it's 3" and a very tight fit for a stock hanger.
4. And the last question :D, if I go with a drop hanger will this point the pinion up to the t-case, down or not move it at all. From what I see in my mind it will move it up... or am I on crack.
Thanks... and the truck looks great btw! :*******
thanks!! its kinda funny but before i did the swap i was looking all over for info, you really cant grasp how easy the swap is until you jump in with both feet and do it!! all i did with the front was make the longer shackles and spread the front hanger out a bit and bolted the waggys in, that easy!! the rears were a little more work, i used the stock hanger off of the waggoneer frame, it is riveted on so all you need to do is torch it off or grind it off, i lined it up on my frame where i wanted it and welded it in position, for the rear i already had extended shackles so i just bolted the stock waggy shackle to mine so i have a double type shackle at the back, works great. my rig does sit a little low in the ass end but i will be fixing that pretty soon! i just got my crossover steering done and moved my front diff forward and had the driveshaft done for my dual case so this weekend i'm gonna try it all out!!! if you have any more questions i havent answered on here just give me a call, Russ, 604-857-9127 i dont mind helpin ya out!!:D
sorry forgot to mention that i used the 5 leaf pack in the front and it flexed so much i put the front diff into the oil pan!! so go for the 7 leaf pack for sure! i had to add two leafs to the front.
 

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a drop front hanger will give u better pinion angle.
 

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pitter said:
a drop front hanger will give u better pinion angle.
.......but also reduce your caster angle.
too little or too much caster causes the infamous 'death wobble'. if youre unfamilair with this issue, its basically a severe shimmy which occurs on pavement. it can be so extreme that it can cause a loss of control. the first 'experimantal' pack of front springs i tried caused my truck to shimmy enough to squak the front tires and stall the engine from the carb shaking! most people dont seem to have this problem with a basic waggy conversion, but if you are thinking of a drop hanger or highly extened shackles, its something id be thinking about before worring about my pinion angle.
 

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the usual drop hanger is from 1"-2". thye one i am making is about 1.75" because of the "death wobble":*******
 

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:eek: Death Wobble! :eek:
I was thinking about a 2.25" drop from stock to new bolt center so just playing with numbers that would rotate the pinion up about about 3 or 4 degrees I think. That Is not enough to cause problems with the caster is it?
 

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Spudzz said:
:eek: Death Wobble! :eek:
I was thinking about a 2.25" drop from stock to new bolt center so just playing with numbers that would rotate the pinion up about about 3 or 4 degrees I think. That Is not enough to cause problems with the caster is it?
ummm.....ya!

to keep factory caster specs, youre basically stuck with stock pinion angle. it is possible cut off the knuckles and re-weld them on to the housing, but for the amount of lift youre dealing with, this is unecassary.
you basically have two simple ways adjust your caster; shims or shackle length. if you plan a 2.25" drop hanger, make 2.25" longer shackles. or make an experimantal set with several holes to try until you find what works. i have a ~3" drop hanger and ~3" longer shackles, but i am not using waggys.

i have seen special knuckle bearings with offset races that allow you to change the caster i think 3 degrees if you really want that extra pinion angle, but its not really necassary with the springs you plan to use.
 

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Thanks for the clarification. I don't think that my pinion angle will be that bad if I run with what I'm planing and I'll just be sure to match the hanger drop with longer shackles.
 

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I bent my 7 leaf waggy packs just from jumping up and down on the front of my truck in the shop. I have since added a full length leaf to them and they still flex great.

If you already have a solid front axle (swapped or not) on leafs in the front of your truck then the answer to most of your guys' questions can be found by simply throwing them in one day. If you have problems, it's as easy as putting your old ones back in until you can get stuff sorted out.

Getting 4" of lift from these leafs is easy, and extended shackles are a great idea. And remember for every 1" you drop your hanger you will only gain ~0.5" of lift.

Other than that my swap is a little bit different than most people's, so listen to Russ he's da man.. :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
thanks russ, and bbp and everyone for your help, i have all the info i need and now all i have to do is find some waggys;)
 

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BBP said:
I bent my 7 leaf waggy packs just from jumping up and down on the front of my truck in the shop. I have since added a full length leaf to them and they still flex great.

If you already have a solid front axle (swapped or not) on leafs in the front of your truck then the answer to most of your guys' questions can be found by simply throwing them in one day. If you have problems, it's as easy as putting your old ones back in until you can get stuff sorted out.

Getting 4" of lift from these leafs is easy, and extended shackles are a great idea. And remember for every 1" you drop your hanger you will only gain ~0.5" of lift.

Other than that my swap is a little bit different than most people's, so listen to Russ he's da man.. :D
hey pete, i've still got all your parts, wed is my first day off in ten days so give me a call wed anytime, Russ. 604-857-9127.
 
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